Rapture's Blog

“I left the Gorean lifestyle-A RESPONSE”

2010-01-11T18:43:00.000-08:00

“I left the Gorean lifestyle-A RESPONSE”
http://nyxmyst.blogspot.com/2010/01/i-going-to-stop-teasing-now.html

Fetlife user:
http://fetlife.com/users/30401 (nyxmyst)

“I left the Gorean lifestyle. I've given 17 years of my life to a philosophy that I can no longer support. Don't get me wrong, I still believe in what could be classified as 'the natural order.' I believe in male dominance. I believe in hierarchy. I defer to those higher than me on the food chain and do not defer to those I consider lower than me. I don't defer to many people.”

First, will define what the natural order is, because this needs to be a defined prior to reading on any further.

The Lion (I particularly like lions if you haven’t gathered) in the jungle, out there on open fields lives according to natural law. Natural law opposed to our set of laws that judge and criticizes each of us, is codified by and between the specie on this nice planet we call Earth. As such the lion (the predator) hunts and eats to survive. We do too just in different manners and ways. Do other animals scatter when the lion comes around-surely. The lionesses or female lion serves the male lion and is well..even “abused” or even casted out if she is found unpleasing-this is a fact.

The Lion chooses to make waves or not. Does this make him evil or bad? Does it mean the lion shouldn’t eat? No. Many in our history have made waves; Martin Lurther King, Ghandi, … were these people evil? No, these people were fighting, and waging a war but certainly I believe knew what the natural order or principals were (that’s why they got what they got out of their efforts).

Another fact is that the human of specie is the most predatorily animal on this Earth-we prey on other species and we prey on ourselves to think otherwise is to be blind.

IF, you don’t believe in the above to be true then you do not believe in the natural order. Then what is it you believe in?

The natural order is “ABUSIVE” and “UNFAIR” at times...it depends on who you are with or who you come across. Some people are more or less abusive than others..but one person’s abuse is another person’s pleasure.

…Then again some of the things you have done and continue to do CAN BE classified as abusive yet you feel utterly justified in doing them…as with others either to you or me or …

For example most “vanilla” people think BDSM is sick and abusive- you practice this. I am not saying it’s wrong, I’m saying others say it is abusive.

You have said, “Sex for me is seperated into two VERY distinct catagories. Sex with emotions for me doesn't happen without some level of brutality. I have never been able to let myself go and feel without pain or rough sex being involved.”

See:
http://fetlife.com/groups/5179/group_posts/445147

So someone has to abuse you for you to gain sexual gratification and for you to feel good about yourself.

If people read my piece on Sadism, Sadism is perfectly represented within the Gorean Ethos, eg. The natural order (I believe there are some actual case studies).

See:
http://libertas-rapture.blogspot.com/2009/05/sadism-sado-masochism-and-gor.html

“What I don't believe in is how M/s works in the Gorean structure.
I don't buy into the idea of being anyone's meat just because I'm a slave.”

In the natural order sense yes you are, as with everyone else, but lest the better predator win the day-you continue to be this with even some of the males you know. Yet you just said..you like to be abused........

“I don't believe that if my Master protects me from fucktards that share a basic belief that that makes him weak.”

No, there is no weakness in a Man, Master, in any lifestyle, if it be the Gorean model or otherwise, actually it is quite natural and within the natural order / Gorean Model to do so (if the Man chooses to or not). Many times in the Gor Model, books, etc., and even in the pride of lions its’ members are protected. However, it is at the decision of the Man, Master to do so or not, and if not, then that’s that. If it is not then there is no actual ownership or control.

“I don't believe that I cannot have human feelings and weaknesses because I'm a slave.”

Actually, the human condition’s and even in other specie’s emotions are quite real and a part of what is natural-this is inclusive of the emotion of crying even if a Man does so from time to time. Also, you experienced this garbage online....in which most of the fucktards come from and say they are Gor but are not.

“I don't believe that I just have to 'suck it up' when something horrible happens.”

If you cannot find it within yourself to “suck it up” and reconcile whatever may be horrible (whicheve demon is huanting you) patting you or anyone else on the head is only going to be a temporary fix. Everyone has horrible things happen to them and those things are not contingent or fixable by third parties they are only fixable by “you.” Golly..I was almost killed on 09/12/2006 when someone from my blind side decided to jump me with a box cutter. Had I not moved or reacted as I was trained to do I would be DEAD. The person still managed to make a laceration to my neck. SOoo should I blame the world for this? Nah. Did I suck it up? Yes.

“I don't believe that I owe any community anything more than basic politeness, and sometimes not even that. I sure as hell don't owe a group of random people my submission.”

Many would agree with you………

“I don't believe that I don't deserve loyalty and love.”

Both of these are earned. ..and what didn’t you do since February of 2009 which you stated you would do but did not relate to sex or a beating? Then again, the proffer of 400/month or so and “blow jobs” was tempting but I’m not one to be bribed or coerced over anything.

“I don't believe that being kinky is wrong.”

Nope it isn’t…

“At the end of the day, this means a few things.
First, I will not be taking time out of my life every time someone has some random crisis.” That isn't to say that I don't care. I just don't have the time.”

Why you did this in the first place was to just pump up the nyx / meesha persona and nothing more. This fed your ego and when it came to an end your ego was and continues to be mashed. People have to deal with their own shit and this includes you; but in lies a slight contradiction in your “suck it up” comment..just as you shouldn’t be fixing other peoples problems your own need to be fixed not by someone fucking you, or whipping you but truly internally since everything else is just a cover or an escape from facing yourself.

“I'm owned now. I'm happy. I found someone who sees me.. all of me.”

But to two (maybe three) days ago you said you were in love with me but who is the lucky guy? I know my collar is not around your neck. I have seen you for what you are from day one since you were 16. Do not misconstrue but it’s just another diversion … and avoidance which is fine.

“Everything else takes a back seat to his pleasure and his happiness. Part of that means that I need time to really find my place in a VERY different situation than I ever had before.”

Was this before or after what I was offered (I could get specific but I’m sure I need not to)… and you not performing but simple things that did not resolve around _sex_… I could expand on this if need be so if you want to deny then I will…Sex is used with those who experienced a traumatic experience to feel good about themselves and to avoid and to evade… Or was this before or after Feb 2009?

“ Slavery without a manual is something very new to me. Learning to serve my Master without that safety net is exciting and exhilarating but it will definitely take some time.”

He should thank me if he has the balls…then again he is in the shadows.

“That doesn't mean that I don't care. It just means my priorities have shifted. It's shifted much further than I thought was ever possible.”

Time will tell.. when are you moving in?

"Yes, I think the Gorean M/s dynamic is purposelhy abusive”

If you have slavery without a manual, and without those safety nets you speak about then isn’t that the very abuse you are talking about? Also see above as to my comments about the natural order.

“I assisted in that abuse for years. I won't do that again.”

You harbor a lot of anger even now…and you are still taking it out on people to date.

“ For those that this upsets.. I'd apologize but honestly? I don't care who this upsets. This is about me.. my needs.. my wants.. my sanity. Those that can accept it will accept it. Those that can't? *shrugs*”

This hasn’t upset anyone…….why would it?

“Girl it's time to stop punishing yourself, it's not the same at all. You have no fault or need to make an excuse that you were lucky enough to possess skills that defused a deadly criminal attack and allowed you to survive. The only shame in this, is what one person tried to do to you and that more people haven't stood up to tell you so. You shouldn't ever disadvantage yourself by correlating the actions of a rapist and potential murder with having anything to do with D/s or Gorean. You simply used skills from "Lifestyle" to combat something that wasn't part of it. You will get past this by remembering you're a surviver and not a victim of this attack. Remember to, you protected your next Master/Owners greatest asset...yourself. To know you had the presence of mind to put your training into fullest effect and press on with it while being raped...makes you my Hero.
Whiplash”
See:
http://fetlife.com/users/30401/posts/34822

It is natural to pull back after a predator decided to take most of all your ego and most of all your pride. As a matter of fact you were talking to someone who was just getting back to being with a man after she was raped.

So, it’s not the natural order, it is not the lifestyle of Gor (which well is basically depicts what is natural er the natural order), nor is it about bdsm, giving a blow job, or any other lifestyle or how to live but it is about a person in Las Vegas, Nevada who did something to survive a bad situation and never really faced herself…. You can run to whomever but it will not matter because you can’t run from yourself because eventually everything comes to a point where there is no more running….

There will always be clusterfucked individuals out there no matter where you go .. as I have stated many times of these people they are my amusement thusly they don’t get under my skin.

“Laurie - It's... You know how when you have a pain for a long time (like when you hurt your leg) and then the pain finally vanishes it feels weird at first? Yeah. It's like that.”

Only a temporary fix . . . from one who strives for pain and get it. How was PE?..and no you have wanted to go there for sometime….

Again I would recommend that you continue your endeavor into the Army…you did get that degree for a reason no?... then again not many people follow through…

…and no one has to accept jack shit....

I will leave with these quotes:

"Your failures won't hurt you until you start blaming them on others." – Zig Ziglar

"Sometimes we will hit the target ....but will miss the self" - Onuma Sensei Kyudo

"Every worthwhile accomplishment has a price tag attached to it. The question is always whether you are willing to pay the price to attain it - in hard work, sacrifice, patience, faith, and endurance."
- John C. Maxwell

I wish you well.

Rapture

LIFe, To do or not to Do...That's the Question?

2009-12-26T08:22:00.000-08:00

~looks around .. oh this is a blog... LOL..

I have been around a great many moons both online and offline yet most people know this and sometimes to my own deteriment or to someone else's.. (I hate being right sometimes).

Nonetheless, what I have seen over the years is that some women want their cake and they also want to eat it too and then some. In short, the dude has to give up something to get laid, or get attention or what have you. Of course it is the guys fault.."always" the guys fault... Well, NOT always, actually, not most of the time... Why? Because the male of specie generally speaking is consistant both in actions and views. The inconsistancies lay with the the typical female or woman for whatever reason if it be hormal, emotional, or <insert unlogical reasoning here>.... So how is it the dude's fault when men are typically consisant and women typically inconsistant? Good question eh?

With this said, if a female or woman cannot manage the simple things that are expected of them from a MAN (not a boy), how does any female expect to get ANYTHING in return. If a woman can't follow meager direction (non-sexual stuff) in any type of relationship how is she going to survive otherwise IN a relationship? Interesting enough I have always from time to time given direction to females I may be interested in that never really related back to the Master/slave relationship [(or did they? ;)] to see if they would follow through. If they couldn't follow through on these things why would I throw a collar about that person's neck? How could they follow through in person? If they couldn't follow what I wanted in the first place .. simple .. (not like I was asking them to take a whip or go bang a zillion guys in the middle a park in broad day light).. things that would otherwise "support" (term used loosely) the idea of getting that ko'lar (hehe had do that .. it's really collar)... It's just not within the Master/slave relationship to suck the guy off.....or "let him" beat you so you can find that head space. Contrary to the now popular belief in or around the various forms... You do for me or exit stage left (yet things usually come back to the girly and she usually gets that satisfaction-usually).....

Even the 1950's and earlier that is how it was...

To paraphrase, "Don't ask what he can do for you, but ask what you can do for him and DO IT.".... and stop making stupid excuses (really I know I have heard most if not all 'em already).

What do you think this quote really means if not the above, "If the snow on top of the mountain is bad, so will the stream of water which leads into the ocean." ............

Suck it up...cupcake...

Rapture

SADISM? SADO-MASOCHISM? and GOR

2009-05-17T18:21:00.000-07:00

In the not so recent past a purported gorean girl posted, “Is sadomasochism Gorean? Sadomasochism is the psychological pathology in which a person is sexually gratified through pain. The sadist receives gratification solely through the infliction of pain on another whether the recipient is willing or not. The masochist receives gratification solely through receiving pain. This should be distinguished from sensual and sensory play which is often a prelude to sexual interaction or even other modes of slave use. Also, it must be noted that Goreans do not engage in resistance play (i.e. a girl intentionally commits an infraction so a master will discipline her). A master disciplines as he feels is necessary, not to fulfill the sexual needs of a slave.”
See:
http://fetlife.com/groups/2066/group_posts/174387

The question or issue is Sadism and/or Sadomasochism Gorean? Further, can such a contention be supported or not supported by way of book references that depict Sadism along with any other empirical data or expert testimony?

First, we must define what Sadism or Sado-Masochism is so that we have a base understanding and not a populace view of the same. Sadomasochism is the derivation of pleasure from the infliction of physical or mental pain either on others or on oneself. [1] Sadism is a sexual “perversion” in which gratification is obtained by the infliction of physical or mental pain on others (as on a love object). [2] Of course these are dictionary definition and do these definitions really reflect what is natural by and between our specie that is called in lay terms human? The answer is no. The human species is the most cruel and vicious on the face of this planet we call Earth and to deny this is to deny what we truly are no matter what society would have us think.

Then again, you beg to “social norms” the odds are that you are not Gor but if you beg to what is natural then the converse is true. A Dr. Moser in which a Canadian Court in 2004 recognized and qualified expert regarding the practice of BDSM (Bondage Domination Sado Masochism) testified in criminal hearing of a person being prosecuted for his bdsm websites. [3] Notably Dr. Moser is a local to San Francisco, California and has an extensive practice here in San Francisco which is one of the largest BDSM communities.

According to Dr. Moser, “pain and pleasure are closely associated factors in
the human sexual experience. Pain giving rise to sexual pleasure is a normal sexual
experience and is the basis for practising BDSM.” [4] Further according to Dr. Moser there are several different levels of BDSM such as, “a person biting another person on the neck during love play is an example of a low level of sadomasochism. On the other hand, the scenes portrayed in the Eleven Videos are portrayals of a high level of sadomasochism. As another example, a person may gently restrain their partner's wrists with a silk handkerchief while making love to them which is an example of a low level of bondage. Again, on the other hand, the scenes portrayed in the Eleven Videos are portrayals of a high level of bondage…. involved, consent, all of this is normal and appropriate sexual behaviour. Consent is the overriding ingredient of normal and appropriate sexual behaviour.” [5] Needless to say, in the Gorean Model or Ethos if a girl is owned by a Man, he gets to do as he wills with her and thusly within the definition Dr. Moser has set out. Are there differences between the non-gorean mindset and the Gorean mindset-of course there is but that “consent” is just something that is naturally embodied verse an outwardly. Does not a Gorean Man have absolute dominion over his?

No psychiatrists or any other "earthly professional" will admit to anything other than something “consentual”….

The infliction of pain or the receiving of the same is natural. See supra.

In the books, not unlike the biblical definition in the dictionary the book directly references sadism, "Perhaps it should only be added that the Gorean master, though often strict, is seldom cruel. The girl knows, if she pleases him, her lot will be an easy one. She will almost never encounter sadism or wanton cruelty, for the psychological environment that tends to breed these diseases is largely absent on Gor. This does not mean that she will not expect to be beaten if she disobeys, or fails to please her Master."
-Outlaw of Gor, pp. 53-54

We must look at the larger picture verse just one mere quotation. The above quotation from Outlaw’s can be argued in basically two ways. That the extreme sadism/ sadomasochism or wanton cruelty is a sickness but sadism or sadomasochism to some extent is “normal” The alternative argument can be made that all sadism or sadomasochism is a sickness. It is true for a long time the medical fields considered all sadism or sadomasochism as a sickness. We must understand that science changes over time and we discover more things about ourselves as a species over that time which may go back and contradict a previous contention-this is called having intellectual honesty (even if the conclusion would be conflict of your personal beliefs).

I want you, the reader to note, that the above quotation allows for some level of sadism or sadomasochism; “. . . . Gorean master, though often strict, is seldom cruel. . . . She will almost never encounter sadism or wanton cruelty . . .” Therefore sadism or wanton cruelty is within the realm of the Gorean condition-the key phrases “seldom” and “almost” which are not absolutes.

“Sexual sadism with consenting partners is much more common than with nonconsensual partners. When consenting partners are involved, the sadist and the masochist may be either male or female. When non-consenting partners are involved, the sadist is almost always a male. Sadomasochism involving consenting partners is not considered rare or unusual in the United States. It often occurs outside of the realm of a mental disorder. Fewer people consider themselves sadistic than masochistic.” [6] Again, you have to realize if a Man has that control of his property then she is subject to his whim and most psychiatrists form their conceptions from social “norms” of society (even some consider homosexuality as a sickness-go figure on that one…).

According to Kernberg (1993), “Sadomasochism cannot be separated from normal sexual behavior. Perverse fantasies occur in normal sexual relationships and differ from perverse psychic structuring in relation to one's individual organization of personality (id, ego, superego).“ [7]

Interesting enough under the Gorean mindset, “Civilization may be predicated upon the denial of human nature; it may also be predicated upon its fulfillment. The first word that an Earth baby learns is usually, `No.' The first word that a Gorean baby learns is commonly, `Yes.' The machine and the flower, I suspect, will never understand one another."
--p.37, Explorers of Gor If you again note when sadism starts—when you are young or a baby which is supported by the books (thus having the freedom to do so if the Man so chooses to do so for his pleasure as he sees fit).

So, the purpose of sadism? For his pleasure? To bring about his purpose to his desired end: "Total warfare, with its arming of millions of men, and its broadcast slaughter of hundreds of populations, is Gorean neither in concept nor in practice. Goreans, often castigated for their cruelty, would find such monstrosities unthinkable. Cruelty on Gor, though it exists, is usually purposeful, as in attempting to bring, through discipline and privation, a young man to manhood, or in teaching a female that she is a slave."
--pg.145, Fighting Slave of Gor

A direct example of sadism or sadomasochism can be found in Savages of Gor - Pg. 230, which reads, “The sexually responsive woman whips well. This is probably a function of the high degree of her skin sensitivity and the depth and vulnerability of her feelings. Her sensitivity and responsiveness make her peculiarly helpless under the lash. She who writhes best under the lash, so say the Goreans, writhes best in the furs.” Magicians of Gor - Pg 124 reads, “To be sure, such a girl, particularly a love slave, occasionally desires to feel the stroke of the lash, wanting to feel pain at the hands of a beloved master, wanting to be whipped by him because she loves him, in this way symbolizing to herself her relationship to him, that of slave to master, her acceptance of that relationship, and her rejoicing in it.” Rogue of Gor, - Pg. 28 reads, “I then went slowly to the rack. She looked up at me, frightened. Then I fastened her in position, spreading her legs uncomfortably apart. Then, looking down upon her, I spread her legs by another four inches. Then I had her.”

A girl wanting to be whipped? Magicians of Gor pg 124, supra, aka sadomasochism and sadism.

These naturally occurring constructs were noted by Samos. Quoting Raiders of Gor- Pg. 309, “All men,” said Samos, “and all women, have within themselves despicable elements, cruel things and cowardly things, things vicious, and greedy and selfish, things ugly that we hide from others, and most of all from ourselves.” Raiders continues to depict the real human condition (again on Pg 309), ““The human being,” he said, “is a chaos of cruelties and nobilities, of hatreds and of loves, of resentments and respects, of envies and admirations. He contains within himself, in his ferments, much that is base and much that is worthy. These are old truths, but few men truly understand them.”

Sometimes we do not want to or we just don’t understand because of the social programming we get when we are young and when live through the years. Interesting enough on Pg. 444 and 445 of Vagabonds of Gor it speaks of this social programming which would otherwise deny the above realities, “From the girl's point of view, of course, she whose sex has in effect been hitherto denied to her, and who has hitherto encountered only men of Earth, most of whom have been sexually reduced or crippled by negativistic conditioning programs, and instructed to rejoice in the fact, Gor comes as a revelation. There they find men who, for the most part, are quite different from those they are accustomed to on Earth, strong, powerful, uninhibited, uncompromising men, men who have never been subjected to pathological conditioning programs aimed at the taming or debilitation of the male animal and its instincts, men who have never been tricked into the surrender of their natural dominance, men who have retained their sovereignty, that mighty sovereignty in nature without which they cannot be men, without which women cannot be women."

Is it not this social programming that determines this or that is a “sickness” even the face of actual truth of the human condition the gorean condition? It is.

Sadism and Sadomasochism is confirmed as a biological truth. To deny this would to be a denial of what is natural. “These things, incidentally, fit into a harmonious physical and psychological dimorphism of the sexes, in which the male, unless reduced, denied or crippled, is dominant. This sexual dimorphism and the dominance/submission equations do not require institutionalized slavery. It is only that that institution is an expression within the context of a natural civilization of certain primal biotruths. In this sense civilization need not be the antithesis of nature but can represent its natural enhancement and flowering."
- MAGICIANS OF GOR-Pg. 300

It is the social programming that supports that Sadism and Sadomasochism is not within the Gorean condition..see Explorers-Pg 37 supra. Further, "Culture decides what is truth, but truth, unfortunately for culture, is unaware of this. Cultures, mad and blind, can die upon the rocks of truth. Why can truth not be the foundation of culture, rather than its nemesis? Can one not build upon the stone cliffs of reality rather than dash one's head against them? But how few human beings can think, how few dare to inquire, how few can honestly question. How can one know the answer to a question which one fears to ask?" Explorers of Gor - Page 11. The Culture we live in, our society, denies biological truths such as sadism and Sadomasochism; as many who are still conditioned by Culture/Society.

Going back a few hundred years, Plato, in explaining the nature of Man in The Republic:
571b:
“I want to make the following distinction between desires. Think about it. Among the unnecessary pleasures and desires there are some which seem to me to be violent and lawless. Everyone is born with them, in all probability, but in some people, under the control of the laws and the better desires, allied with reason, they are either eliminated completely, or remain few and weak. In other people, however, they become stronger and more numerous.”
572b:
“What we need to know is that there is in everyone a terrible, untamed and lawless class of desires—even in those of us who appear to be completely normal.”
571c-d:
“Which desires do you mean?”
“Those which are aroused in sleep, I said, “when the rest of the soul—the rational, gentle and ruling element in it—slumbers, and the bestial, savage part, filled with food or drink, suddenly comes alive, casts off sleep, and tries to go out and satisfy its own nature. In this state, as you know, since it is released and set free from all shame or rational judgment, it can bring itself to do absolutely anything. In its imaginings it has no hesitation in attempting sexual intercourse with a mother—nor with anyone or anything else, man or god or animal. There is no murder it will not commit, no meat it will not eat. In short, it will go to any length of folly and shamelessness.”

On page 12 of Tribesman of Gor, “You are slave," I said. "You are owned. You are a female. You will be forced to be a woman. If you were free, and Gorean, you might be permitted by men to remain as you are, but you are neither Gorean nor free. The Gorean man will accept no compromise on your femininity, not from a slave. She will be what he wishes, and that is a woman, fully, and his. If necessary, you will be whipped or starved. You may fight your Master. He will, if he wishes, allow this to prolong the sport of your conquest., but in the end, it is you who are slave, it is you who will lose.” . . . whipped or starved . . . without compromise . . .

We have seen, and what has been demonstrated the updated view that BDSM or sadism or sadomasochism IS normal. BDSM/Sadism/Sadomasochism is allowable under the Gorean Ethos or Gorean Condition. If you partake in such things is fine, if you do not, then you don’t either is correct but do not say a Gorean cannot within his freedoms partake in what is natural and not be gorean or practicing Gor because such a contention by a natural definition is incorrect. Further to deny these things if either sadism or sadomasochism is not within the Gorean condition would be intellectually dishonest.

Rapture

“Rejoice and bask in such prideful glee of your ingenuity, cunning, and skill of lies and contradiction. I will, however, will endure the embarrassment of Truth. For truth is had, only by those willing to accept both its pain, its pleasure, its primal and carnal revelations." - ©
(a Rapture original quotation).

REFERENCES:

[1]
"Sadomasochism." Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary. 2009.
Merriam-Webster Online. 14 May 2009
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sadomasochism

[2]
"sadism." Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary. 2009.
Merriam-Webster Online. 14 May 2009
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sadism

[3]
Filed April 23, 2004
In the Provincial Court of British of Columbia- Criminal Division
File No: 141079-3-C2
Registry: Vancouver
Regina v. Randy Price
Judge R. R. Low
Page 7, paragraph 31

[4]
Filed April 23, 2004
In the Provincial Court of British of Columbia- Criminal Division
File No: 141079-3-C2
Registry: Vancouver
Regina v. Randy Price
Judge R. R. Low
Page 7, paragraph 32

[5]
Filed April 23, 2004
In the Provincial Court of British of Columbia- Criminal Division
File No: 141079-3-C2
Registry: Vancouver
Regina v. Randy Price
Judge R. R. Low
Page 7, paragraph 33
Page 8, paragraph 34

[6]
HeathLine
GALE Cengage Learning
“Sexual Sadism” 14 May 2009
http://www.healthline.com/galecontent/sexual-sadism/3

[7]
Kernberg, O. (1993). Sadomasochism, sexual excitement, and perversion. Zeitschrift fur Psychoanalytische Theorie und Praxis, 8, (4), 319-341.

"Read the fucking books" - "For those that are new to Gorean Mores"

2009-05-10T10:15:00.000-07:00

You know I am amused when the "devote" call the kettle black. I am referencing posting by "Unbuilder" on collarchat.com. You can find his post here:

http://www.collarchat.com/m_2548637/tm.htm

If you note a few facts first...

The moderators of Collarchat.com accused me of attacking people and what is Unbulider doing here but attacking people and using out right profanity. Just remember if you are liked then you can do as you please for the moderators at Collarchat.com will turn a blind eye.

kimveri (that is her online nick) has been a slave fw then slave ... Personally I have lost count the number of times she has knelt and then turned around to being a "freewoman" again.

Let's now take a look at Unbuilder's comments:

"On a recent thread some clueless, needle-dick. wanna-be disney gorean, assigned my *Free Companion* the status of slave to some other man. Mind you... this isn't a woman that I've never met, and our *Free Companionship* has never been an online occasion of celebration. We're talking about a woman that I live with, that I have *four* times physically handed a cup of wine to as we repledged our companionship. (For those of you with the E-books amd search engines, you should be able to find the references, for those with the physical copies... read the fucking books)"-- Unbuilder : 4/8/2009 12:53:31 PM
See:
http://www.collarchat.com/m_2548637/tm.htm

"...On a recent thread some clueless, needle-dick. wanna-be disney gorean, assigned my *Free Companion* the status of slave to some other man...."

Well let us READ what the books speak about females who once were a FW and then went slave then FW again..etc etc etc etc....

“If a girl of caste is enslaved, and then disowned, she, while slave cannot stand in companionship. Even if freed, without family, and by the same act, without caste, would have a status beneath the dignity of the meanest peasant wench, secure in the rights of her caste. She would be among the lowest women on Gor. Even a slave girl has at least a collar” .
Hunters of Gor, pg. 135

Would seem that you calling this person out is in clear violation of the Collarme/Collarchat.com guidelines. It would seem the that person is actually RIGHT who is being called out. Then again I have had the pleasure to been around a long time.... of course then the unsubstaniated agrument is made "she" is whatever he wants her to be... To my understanding under RavenofPK kimveri ate out of a dog dish. Interesting enough I am not always in agreeance with Raven and I have my own misgivings regarding him but in this instance I think the above fitting.

So.. Unbuilder, kimveri and Collarne/Collarchat.com are calling the kettle black when they harp on others since. YES, indeed READ THE FUCKING BOOKS.

Further, Unbuilder, since you are a member of Silk and Steel, why do you tolerate so many "needle-dicks" who are married which contradicts Gor and places a yoke around the boys respective necks? Marcus is married. Mastiff is Married. Belliger is married. Sierra'Irsei is married. Thunder is married. ...and some to a "slave"... However, Unbuilder you turn a _blind eye_ to all of this........

See here how marriage contradicts.. have an entire discussion on it... (which more is coming)...

http://libertas-rapture.blogspot.com/2009/04/free-companionship-v-marriage.html

"Being Gorean ain't some sort of grab ass good buddies club, if you deserve better than "village idiot" status, you'll earn it." - Unbuilder

Hmm.. Isn't this what you have done is to join a club with the good ole ass buddies then turned around like them and called the kettle black? Seems so. You clearly have taken a blind eye and done nothing about your own buds in Silk and Steel.

"For whatever it's worth, *I* think that everyone who aspires to be any sort of Gorean should read the books, whether they be E-books or physical copies. Cause if they do, they might discover that being Gorean ain't about "the slaves" or "I wanna get my dick wet" or "I was born with a dick so *Norman* says I'm in charge"."

I would agree with you here but the thing is you have failed yes failed on your own words and sermone to even come close to following them in practice. ..just see above.

I also wonder, "Gorean Free Women have the same rights as Free Men." which is stated on Fetlife in which BOTH you and kimveri are members...I wonder WHY you did not correct this erroneouse contention.
See:
http://fetlife.com/groups/2066/group_posts/138832

Perhaps again we shall READ THE BOOKS:

"This harsh treatment, incidentally, when she is thought to deserve it, may even be inflicted on a free companion, in spite of the fact that she is free and usually much loved. According to the Gorean way of looking at things a taste of the slave ring is thought to be occasionally beneficial to all women, even the exalted free woman. Thus when she has been irritable or otherwise troublesome even a Free Companion may find herself at the foot of the couch looking forward to a pleasant night on the stones, stripped, with neither mat nor blanket, chained to the slave ring precisely as though she were a lowly slave girl. It is the Gorean way of reminding her, should she need to be reminded, that she, too, is a woman, and thus to be dominated, to be subject to men. Should she be tempted to forget this basic fact of Gorean life the slave ring set in the bottom of each Gorean couch is there to refresh her memory. Gor is a man’s world. "
Priest-Kings of Gor, page 67

[Emphasis Added]

SOOoooo... there are many other references FROM THE BOOKS that the NEEDLE DICKS forget about that CLEARLY show that a freewoman is not equal nor the female free companion. She may of course enjoy some nice things but those things are subject to be taken away if the MAN so chooses. Yet, of course you will have to have the proper instruments in place just for such an occassion.

Sooo BOTH you Unbuilder and kimveri are silent. WHY? ~smiles.

I would be more than happy to meet up with you and kimveri and tell each of you in person however we all know you don't have the courage to do so. You know what is funny... I have met kimveri and it seems she has more balls than you.

Again, I am amused at the words of a mighty Silk and Steel member...

Rapture

Free Companionship v. Marriage

2009-04-27T18:54:00.000-07:00

"I agree with you in that marriage doesnt fit the Gorean philos but such a lot of everything else doesnt either. If marriage is the least of it I think we have all managed to fit Gor into our daily lives very well."

First, and foremost, go here first:

I know I know tons of reading and personal attacks because the married folks just cant deal with the fact that their marriages contradict what is Gor.

http://fetlifereality.webs.com/

Now that you had a chance to read some of the snippets...

Why can't people be honest and just say their marriage contradicts the gorean ethos???

Rapture

"BEING GOREAN ON EARTH" - A response

2009-03-08T16:22:00.000-07:00

The more times I read stuff Marcus writes the more I want to research it to confirm whathe is saying is in fact supported in anyway. Marcus wrote this over here:
http://www.silkandsteel.com:8080/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=437
...needless to say again he is surely wrong as I responded.

The response is below:

…

“Theoretically all American citizens are "equal" under the law, which is the only area to which the U.S. Consitution applies.” – Marcus [1]

This then begs the question, are we really equal?

It is the law that when on a bus you must surrender a seat (actually more) to those who are in wheel chairs (the disabled) or who are elderly. Now, it is may be nice and courteous to do so however this is not equality this is making an accommodation. Typically 1 to 4 persons are displaced and more so unconvinced when this situation occurs especially if the bus is packed. The law says equality but really the law makes only accommodation based upon a certain fact pattern or facts-there is no real equality.

"Nos es non par ergo nos es non idem." or "We are not the same, therefore we are not equal." [2] As sworn, there is no equality by those who are members of Silk and Steel as with the law, as with what is Gorean. For equality to exist you must then agree that freewomen are equal to Men, and slaves are equal to Men, and all three freewomen, Man, and slaves are equal to each other-which is not true within the gorean philosophy. [3]

Yes, we live on Earth, in the United state of America, and in various states (or even similar but different

“Living a Gorean lifestyle is like that, I feel. One must choose cautiously how one will resist the laws and strictures of his society. When in Rome, as was once said here on Earth, one must do as the Romans do, and one must render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.”

Many Roman’s especially if they were far from Caesar did as they pleased even if it were against the Caesar (even in Rome). Many groups today practice many things that are technically illegal but they keep to themselves and live their respective lifestyles and philosophies within the confines of what is society and the respective laws yet irrespective of those laws. A good example of this is that though bigamy is outlawed in all states of the United States many still practice it.

“Rape is not tolerated on Gor, either. And everyone gasps! How can that be?
Here’s why: because one cannot "rape" a legal slave. Not on Gor. They are not technically "people" under the eyes of the law. The only one who can be "raped" is one who is legally entitled to say "no." In other words, a Free Woman.”

Not tolerated?
Are entitled to say no?

“I have abused your slave,” said Bran Loort.
That is what slaves are for,” said Thurnus.
We took much pleasure in her!” said Bran Loort, angrily.
Did you find her pleasing?” asked Thurnus.
Yes,” said Bran Loort. He gripped the long, heavy staff more firmly, standing ready.
Then,” said Thurnus, “it will not be necessary for me to beat or slay her.”
Bran Loort looked puzzled.
Surely you know, Bran Loort,” said Thurnus, “it is the duty of a slave girl to be fully and completely pleasing to men. Were she not so she would be subject to severe punishment, including even torture and death, should it be the master’s wish.”
Page 226, Slave Girl of Gor

"Make my maidens slaves," she said, "they are good for little else. But I am a free woman!" "Do you think you are better than they?" asked Samos. "Yes," she said. "You are no different from them," he said. "You, too are only a female." Players of Gor pg. 13

The above would otherwise throw a monkey wrench into the aforementioned.

“The law has nothing to do with their bellies or their biological propensities, not here on Earth. Here, they are slaves by choice and circumstance, not under any legality which makes them so.”

A slave is a slave is a slave. You are correct in your appraisal that the law has nothing to do with thier bellies or the internal slave. To also say slavery is in their bellies or being or in their biological propensities and are slaves by choice is an oxymoron. They, the slaves are who they are, by the biological imperative, and that is not a choice-it is one or the other not both. Slavery has already been defined by pure definition which has yet to be contradicted (as referenced by me). [6]

The U.S. Constitution being the supreme law of the land denotes to equality as you said yourself yet you say the law has nothing to with a slave, who is unequal. The Silk and Steel oath, states, “I pledge my loyalty to the Home Stone of the Silk and Steel and to its Body of Citizens, united in principle by the values we hold dear and dedicated to the furtherance of the Gorean Ethos. I will live according to its Credo and be bound by its Constitution. I understand that the privilege of citizenship incurs my obligation to support and defend the Home Stone, the Constitution, the Credo, and the collective Citizenry. Of my own free will and in accordance with the Codes of my Caste, I swear this oath.” [4] As with, “…The Thirteenth Amendment of the United States Constitution states that: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." Other countries have similar prohibitions against slavery.” [5]

The equality aspects of the society’s laws which includes the U.S. Constitution directly contradicts the inequality aspects of the silk and steel motto [2] along with the inequality aspects of gorean philosophy as it applies to Men, freewomen and slaves. To state one agrees with the socialite’s laws or to be pledged or bound by the same and then say one lives gorean is an oxymoron. This is also being intellectually dishonest.

“The legal status of slavery is no longer recognized as valid in our current society, which is not necessarily a bad thing, either, when one considers it. Earth culture has, for the most part, outgrown the legal practice of slavery, since it no longer fulfills the economic niche it once did here on Earth. Throughout most of the world it is no longer practical, due to mechanization and plentiful sources of relatively inexpensive labor in our modern milieu.”

Slavery is alive and well in the United States and other places. As for the economic views upon slavery I believe I have already addressed the same. The niche is being fulfilled quite nicely. [6] Also, with your own words, slavery, is not a matter of the law it is of being. This aspect of being as you stated above would also contradict with the aspects expressed about in the silk and steel slave policy about the abolishment of slavery. [6] So, I am wondering which is actually followed because by definition these aspects are contrary to each other or again an oxymoron. In support of this, you state, “Not entirely true. Yes, Gor is fictional; still, most of what is depicted in the Gor books, involving the treatment and ownership of slaves and the allowance of personal combat in one's day-to-day existence is NOT fictional.” So if not fictional this supports the contentions that slavery no matter how illegal is unequal and contrary to law yet which one is believed and/or followed?

In today’s world slavery as I stated is alive and well…. In the Sudan, Niger, United Arab Emirates, India, Nepal, Pakistan, Indonesia and probably many other places as well (including the United States). [7]

--Sudan: There is considerable evidence that slavery is still practiced in a large scale in Sudan -- an estimated 14,000 people have been abducted since 1983. However, the existence of slavery is denied by the Sudanese government. Some western religious groups have attempted to buy freedom for individual slaves. Unfortunately, this has become counterproductive. It increases the profitability of enslavement as a commercial enterprise, and results in more slaves being created.

(NOTE: The economic aspects)

-- Niger: Anti-Slavery International reported in mid-2003 that slavery is rampant in Niger, mostly in the southwestern Tillaberry region of that country. This occurs even though slavery is prohibited by the constitution and is being fought by stringent new laws. About 7% of the population -- some 870,000 individuals are condemned to life-long servitude. Many are born into slavery and will remain slaves all of their life.

“"My point is not only is it not possible to take all aspects of Gorean society into this society, it is morally wrong to attempt to do so."That would depend upon one’s particular morality, of course….Morality is at best an ambiguous concept, unless it has real power behind it, in which case a particular set of moral codes can be enforced upon others… The way it works is this: the group morality and practicality gives rise to the law; the law then forces those under it to conform to that group morality and practicality to continue to exist within that group.”

The difference between laws? Is someone else’s morality being imposed by the few on the masses along with certain ramifications if you would otherwise go against these “moral” imperatives-such as incarceration which you say is enslavement.

Case and Point of this morality is that, “Morality, like the structure of laws under which we live, is both relative and situational. Most of us maintain a series of moral dictates within which we live our lives. Some rely upon "common-sense" morality, i.e. behaving in such a way as to defend oneself while taking no unfair advantage of others. Others subscribe to a set of moral beliefs emplaced by devotion to a particular religion. However, our moral good sense is affected by the common morals of the society around us. Our morals are therefore mutable, depending upon what we have been taught by others, and what we have learned through experience.”

Again, laws are a small group of people’s morals imposed upon the masses without necessarily your consent. These laws have penalties for you to live in fear with and to keep you bound, limited, and obedient. E.g. codes that you may or may not agree with or are against what is the natural state of a female or in her belly.

This reminds me of two fictional movies in which hit a certain point yet fictional but all quite true.
The first movie was Cool Hand Luke with Paul Newman. Mr. Newman played an incarcerated inmate in a not so nice prison. Mr. Newman had this drive to never quit, and surely never quit attempting to escape. He was surely punished time after time after time….but he kept on. This was also true in the conflicts within the walls in that he just kept on “getting up”. To draw the inference and analogy Mr. Newman’s character was making a point of surely incarcerated but also surely free. For Freedom like slavery is internal not an external matter. “Plot: A man refuses to conform to life in a rural prison.” [8]

The other and particularly interesting flick that comes to mind along this lines is V for Vendetta. [9]
“Interrogator: I am instructed to inform you that you have been convicted by special tribunal and that unless you are ready to offer your cooperation you are to be executed. Do you understand what I'm telling you?
Evey Hammond: Yes.
Interrogator: Are you ready to cooperate?
Evey Hammond: No.
Interrogator: Very well. Escort Ms. Hammond back to her cell. Arrange a detail of six men and take her out behind the chemical shed and shoot her.
Guard: It's time.
Evey Hammond: I'm ready.
Guard: Look all they want is one little piece of information, just give them something, anything.
Evey Hammond: Thank you, but I'd rather die behind the chemical sheds.
Guard: Then you have no fear any more. You're completely free.”

…” People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people”

I also suggest the “Dead Poet Society” with Robin Williams.

A real life example?

Charles Manson (among others which is inclusive to bigamy groups etc.). Manson’s sentence was commuted from the Death Penalty to Life with Possibility of Parol when California’s death penalty was declared unconstitutional. You or I may disagree with his motives and methods but he is able to conform, but refuses to, and thus remains behind bars. Like it or not, he is truly free from societies laws.

“Therefore, would any Gorean Free Man or Free Woman actively behave in such a manner as to invite enslavement? Nope. It is antithetical to their existence. Goreans love their freedom. They love it so much, in fact, that they will even take it away from those whom they do not feel have earned it, or deserve it. As one who practices the Gorean philosophy in his doings, I would never do anything foolish which might inadvertently result in my reduction to slavery... i.e. my loss of freedom and surrender of my legal rights to the state. Therefore, I would be quite cautious when it comes to doing anything which might result in my enslavement... i.e. my entering the penal system as a legally imbonded prisoner.”

It is NOT the breakage of laws that enslaves us and ensuing incarceration or possibility of incarceration; it is the fear of the breakage or the fear of the ensuing incarceration or the possibility thereof or the conformity thereof. For this is living in fear of those laws or someone else’s morality. It is the conformity to those laws coupled with fear that enslaves keep s “you” in line or from being free.

Back in 2007 a nice person with a neon box cutter attempted to slice my throat open. The law or someone else’s morality was furtherest from my mind. Once stood up to, this individual decided not to try for a second attempt even though he had the advantage of being armed.

This is akin to “following rules” on boards that would otherwise attempt to force their own moralities upon me. Over the years I am who I am no matter what rules or should I say morals that others would otherwise attempt to be forced upon me. Ban me? You could. However, that does not preclude the facts nor does it scare me into submission for I am truly free. I speak as I please…and there is no one who can really stop that and it is not denying me anything.

I will depart with the following thoughts:
“Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them.”
-- "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation."
-- David Henry Thoreau (1862)

. . . Conformity and Fear is the Enslavement.

Rapture
http://libertas-rapture.blogspot.com/

[1]
RE: Oaths and Professions: Gorean Men Only, Please - 12/21/2008 3:33:36 PM
http://www.collarchat.com/m_2339218/mpage_2/key_/tm.htm#2350504

[2]
THE OFFICIAL MOTTO OF THE SILK & STEEL
"We are not the same, therefore we are not equal."
(Latin Translation: "Nos es non par ergo nos es non idem.")
http://www.silkandsteel.com/motto.html

[3]
Page 226, Slave Girl of Gor
Players of Gor pg. 13

[4]
THE OATH OF CITIZENSHIP OF THE SILK & STEEL
http://www.silkandsteel.com/oath.html

[5]
OFFICIAL SLAVERY POLICY OF THE SILK & STEEL
http://www.silkandsteel.com/slavery.html

[6]
“Post subject: Re: Gor as a Model of Social CapitalismPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:15 pm”
http://www.silkandsteel.com:8080/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=548&sid=ce4f5b9464a36bcb5a2d328effb31bba

[7]
SLAVERY: WHERE IT IS PRACTICED TODAY
http://www.religioustolerance.org/sla_world.htm

[8]
“Plot: A man refuses to conform to life in a rural prison.”
“He was smiling... That's right. You know, that, that Luke smile of his. He had it on his face right to the very end. Hell, if they didn't know it 'fore, they could tell right then that they weren't a-gonna beat him. That old Luke smile. Oh, Luke. He was some boy. Cool Hand Luke. Hell, he's a natural-born world-shaker.”
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061512/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061512/quotes

[9]
V for Vendetta
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/quotes

TODAY's Stroll In the RAIN.........

2009-03-03T07:54:00.000-08:00

Start Time: 6:40am

End Time: 7:36am

Distance: 10 miles

. . . . isn't so nice that I can do so and "you" only shake your head. *BURPS (TM)*

Life certainly is not just about how many women you can fuck...then again if you haven't fucked someone who is in shape you haven't really fucked anyone yet . . .

Enjoy your day....

Rapture

THE GOREAN DIET PLAN

2009-02-25T08:36:00.000-08:00

In recent events there has been an interesting thread on collarchat.com, the same can be found at http://www.collarchat.com/m_2468212/tm.htm . "A Gorean Solution to the Obiesity Epidemic"

I will start with a side note though, damn once I started to do this blog the various boards got all quiet. Well maybe that is just my ego speaking but hey people do keep tabs on me because they know I have more information on them that they don't want other to know about than they do me. Then again you can just ask me something and I'll just tell you about it.... (yet another point of contention with the so called "goreans"-that I can't be blackmailed or coerced.

Now on to the show.......

The above post was started by Leonidas aka Magna aka Moderator 6 (the mod number may change)..but nonetheless.. He implies that "goreans" are obese. Well, to the most part he is right, utterly obese..to the point where they have many health problems. To the most part he is right that most who purport to be gorean are just plan FAT..and I do MEAN F A T.

IF the shit hit the fan and there was a limited food supply these fat people would be in some real hurt. IMAGINE for a moment... No government for at least a week or so... or longer... Oh wait that has occured, uh does Hurricanne Katrina ring a bell? The people in New Orleans were left with their own devices. No McDonalds...

"Of course, some folks would be a little screwed, and might have to rely on the good graces of their better abled neighbors to hunt and gather for them (or pay someone to)."

A littel screwed? They would be the first to go because the real person or persons who really have the POWER are the one's who can fend for themselves or defend themselves or even take offensive postures to gain for what they will. They would be living off their FAT. I suppose that is a good way to lose some weight.

The responders of the thread only make excuses for the utter obesity.

"Granted, this is spoken by a woman who is no Skinny Minnie. The best I can say of myself and the battle of the bulge is that I still have a waistline, and my weight has been pretty stable for 20+ years. I'd for sure be better off if I dropped 30. "

Glad you still have a waistline.. everyone does the actual question is your waistline smothered with rolls of fat and layered with floppy skin?

"How about people-sized "hamster balls"? Anything 10 miles or less, you go "by ball"? Just keeping your balance in one of those would be a massive work-out for muscles that haven't been used in....oh, I don't know....decades?....EVER?? "

Uh.. to have some type of core control is essential say for a healthy back along with stablization of organs, and the ability to move when you need to.

"I have this image of McD's as a fortress, surrounded by a wide mote, military style obstacle course & savage DI's howling at the panting parents, "Your 4 year old is gonna get that burger FIRST, Tubby!! MOVE IT, MOVE IT!!!""

Calling the kettle black again? You are not in any position to call ANYONE tubby...........

"Our's is a sexually repressed and frustrated society. What do many do when they're frustrated and unfullfilled?....why eat of course! Food is comfort and food is love and it's most likely sex too. The solution...lose the repression, lose the frustration...fuck more and eat less. "

You are right in the sense that most who are OBESE having the lack of self control/discipline and they are somewhat fucked in the head.

Uh pull back from the kitchen table... Go and get some excercise... Maybe just maybe then your health problems will either improve or disappear. DUH.

"We think that outside the store should be those scales like they have in the airport, if you are over a certain weight, the doors won't open..sorry better luck next month..try the local farmers market."

Would it really matter? I doubt it. Then again maybe eating your weight in food every month might jar some realities home...

"This is only part of the problem. Hunter-gatherer bodies aren't designed to eat the processed/sugared/empty caloried junk many people eat these days. Those bodies are also designed to move. "

Uh.. Hate to break it to you it is the PERSON not that our bodies are not designed to do this or that.. THEY ARE ! It is the FACT that people have gotten lazy and they didn't get off their ass.

"No one gets fat eating fruits and vegetables--especially when those foods must be gathered first, and when the lean meat to supplement them must be hunted first. "

Oh eat right! Get some excercise... DUH. Get 3 parts veggies, 2 parts a lean protien and 1 part carbs. DUH.

"After all, Gor too saw some overweight individuals. "

Yes. Yet they surely didn't do much of their own survival..If memory serves they were dependant on others.

"While I do agree that obesity is and can be a problem, I think that unhealthy behaviors are what should be adressed, not if someone can fit through a 12 inch gap or if they can run a treadmill or an obstacle course before getting into a restaurant or a grocery store, however tongue in cheek or not those suggestions may be."

Obesity IS UNHEALTHY...............

"Gor doesn’t seem to have a total fixation on weight though unlike western civilisation because if you are free you can whatever weight you wish to be, if you are a slave you become the weight your owner chooses by starvation if necessary. Its about personal choice for the free, slaves views dont matter as they dont get to choose. "

WRONG.

Gor has an underly tenent of health and by way of health you are able to do as you will otherwise you really couldn't do as you will because someone else would beat you to the punch.

"The interesting question is when we can, will we? Doing so, obviously, would be somewhat short-sighted."

Individuals are short sighted not the entire population. I know tons of women who would just kick your ass Leo...

"I believe that Mother Nature will still see to her children as she always has. If we are worthy of her good graces we will flourish, if not we will perish. Eskimos tend to like a fleshy female, well other than the First Dude of Alaska. Some men like big boned women. Ever wonder why lots of fat chicks are with these skinny assed dudes? What about the hottie that is with the heavy guy? I was at a race a couple years back and the hottest chick wearing damn near nothing was with a guy that had to weigh 350 and might have been 6 foot, but he'd have had to been in boots to get there."

FAT women are just utterly disgusting.......... BLAH. There is difference between being structurly big boned and being FAT or OBESE. You get lost in that shit....blah.

"I'm a bit heavy myself, though it must be a big sexy kind of heavy . Actually I was told by a medical fellow that I would most likely never weigh less than 225 to 230 again due to heavy muscle mass. Taking that into consideration I could even get my arms into Roughleather’s 12 inch nightclub. But there wouldn't be any big titties in there either so I'll have to party in the street, maybe at the corner of 13th and Cleavage Lane; right out front of the Big Round Booty Shop. "

There is DIFFERENCE between being 230lbs of FAT or being 250 pounds of MUSCLE.
Yes you are big, and FAT and OUT OF SHAPE ! Like Magna er Leonidas I know many women who would just kick your ass and wouldn't have anything to do with you. Then again they also think attempting to fuck everything with two legs and tits all the time is just gross.

"In conclusion, I suspect at some point we'll stop making excuse for those that are a detriment to themselves and possibly to society. Until then the weight loss industry is cutting a fat hog in the ass, literally. "

Take your own advice along with the others... STOP MAKING EXCUSES.

"But, I guess the problem is (like Master Leonidas said) that the function of the leptin system is supposed to prevent weight loss, not protect against weight gain (that evolution thing). Leptin levels decline when the body loses fat and this stimulates the appetite. Would make it hard, I imagine, trying to lose weight when our bodies are constantly telling us we're hungry. "

Oh the naive have returned.

Guess what... if you eat properly and oh six times a day PROPERLY guess what.. your body will not be hungry and will not go into food storage mode which occurs when you feel them hunger pains. Guess what? You will LOSE WEIGHT.

"Yes, that is what I was saying. That feedback loop is blind to how much you weigh. It's evolved to conserve the energy stores you have, regardless of how big those stores are. It's just reflective of the fact that we evolved in an environment where it was unlikely that you'd ever get enough to eat easily enough to become obese, and if you were lucky enough to do so, it probably wouldn't last, so your body is designed to hold onto it no matter what. "

Doesn't anyone know how the human's metabolizism works? You keep it fed with the right stuff your metabolizism increases with some excercise...then you lose weight..you build lean muscle mass verse FAT.

"'m assume a Gorean solution would be much the same as what the Chinese had to do to employ their expansive population. Don't make work easier or less involved, but to rather make sure there is enough work to serve the human purpose. I believe the Gorean solution wouldn't be a quick fix game at the checkout or checkin counter. It is in embracing what your nature calls for, discipline, understanding good health and plenty of effort expended to serve the natural process. To me it seems that our Industrial Age has not in all ways created benefit. We work less, eat more and have in some ways have become lazy, appathetic and enslaved to the system by it's tempting lures. "

THE SOLUTION is to change your diet.
THE SOLUTION is to eat right.
THE SOLUTION is to get excercise
THE SOLUTION is to STOP MAKE THOSE EXCUSES..............

"Not a diet on earth will work well without exercise. Aside from a host of other benefits for our well-being, including elevated levels of dopamine and endorphins, making it good for general happiness, it helps keep metabolism high, letting us work off unneeded reserves. "

DUH.

Rapture

A Response: "Gor as a Model of Social Capitalism" by Marcus

2009-02-09T10:16:00.000-08:00

Recently, I was surfing around the Silk and Steel forum at http://www.silkandsteel.com:8080/ and encountered a post by Marcus entitled "Gor as a Model of Social Capitalism". I found the title at least interesting enough to read the post.

A tad about Marcus... Marcus has been around a while and has written many things that pertain to Gor (right, wrong, or indifferent). To my understanding Marcus is married, he is married to a non-gorean female, and to my further understanding he has not actually touched another female since his marriage. Thus, my internal question to myself (which I am now externally expressing): What practical EXPERIENCE does Marcus really have besides reading the books and theorizing on them?

There is something I have generally noticed about posts that Marcus publishes. Sometimes he makes statements in which it requires the reader to fill-in the blanks and then in doing so since you are filling in the blanks makes what he is saying "true". I personally attempt to reference information that substantiates what I'm saying (some people just don't like that but oh well...).

I have posted my response on here and on the Silk and Steel forum. I'm not counting on anything much from the S&S forum....or perhaps even here but IT is here nonetheless.

My Response follows:

“Recently I took part in a discussion wherein a great many contributors took umbrage at the suggestion that Gorean slaves, in Gorean society upon that distant (fictional) planet, would be socially devalued and dehumanized. One can't argue against that concept, of course, in relation to Gorean culture as described in the books. The point is clearly made. In Gorean society, the slave is precisely that-- an owned property. That position is indisputable.

However, how that potential economic "valuation" impacts upon their human value seems to depend upon the feelings of those directly involved.”

[ It is true many will have differing feelings or emotional responses to putting a value upon a human who is otherwise engaged to do so. To have differing feelings about anything is a natural course of nature. This is true if you are involved or not. Hence, you have differing opinions about whichever subject matter or situation that may arise. This is a fact of human nature and is natural. The real question is supporting that feeling, contention or having the ability to defend in the mists of the swords of others. ]

“Nor is there anything wrong with that, surely. Provided the dichotemy of free versus slave is clearly maintained. Personally, I don't see the elevation of the free above the enslaved to be so much a factor of devaluation on the part of the slave as it is a result of the undeniable Gorean exaltation of the status of being "free."

[ If you are maintaining dichotomy or should I say the maintaining the division of the two exclusive groups you will have to accept each of their respective stations one being superior and one being inferior or contradictory to each other. (1) The value of something unto itself is a fair return or equivalent in goods, services, or money which is exchanged (e.g. compensation) or it is the monetary worth of something. (2) Thus, you must have the inferior and/or superior value to separate each group to maintain such dichotomy between the two groups and in this case the Free and the slave. The Free having more value. When I reference the Free, I intend the usage to reference the to the Freemen and not the female. Yes, there are “freewomen” but still they are not equals to Men and surely the slave is not equal to Men either-hence again the dichotomy of both station and value. The word “free” is more as stated in more as stated in reference to Freemen than freewoman since freewoman are not equal to Men. (3) ]

It often seems to me that some self-proclaimed Goreans out there fail to understand the importance of Freedom in a Gorean sense. Or else they tend to confuse it with the half-ass legal status into which all are born in Western society, and which was awarded to them for nothing, by default.

[ The law gives or bestows certain rights and/or obligations some of which are entered into willingly and some that are not. The one’s that are not are more punitive and judgmental and stem from others morality rather than freedoms. However, the law surely purports “equality” yet what the law really does and how the law really operates is to provide accommodation based upon a certain set of facts or fact patterns. Surely, there is some confusion between what Gorean is and how to live as such within the frame work of others morality (laws) in which the minority has chosen for the masses. Some do better than others and some attempt to disguise Western Law as gorean when some of the two do not mix. ]

Gorean Freedom is a different animal entirely. It demands action, and constant vigilance. It is a purposeful acceptance of responsibility for oneself and to one's society-- and especially toward others who willingly shoulder the same burden.

[ Gorean Freedom indeed is different. This purposeful acceptance is a code and each person has a differing code. There is no one person who has the same exactness. Gorean Freedom is not necessarily the acceptance of oneself or one’s society. If this were true, which it isn’t, then everyone would be in a utopia or chivalistic towards one another. Some people are irresponsible yet very Gorean and some are very responsible however that underlying or underpinning interpretation of who is or who is not “responsible” is compared to our own sense of responsibility. We are only limited to our own abilities and our own skill with the sword to achieve what we will. [4] Though, the sword, can in fact take many forms in kind achieve one’s will. With that said, there is one person when using the law that will limit you and that person is usually in black robes and sits high upon the bench to wit will sit in judgment-the Judge. I personally tend not to enter into situations as to where such a person can invade my sovereignty but use that sword to my own skillful advantage. ]

“Examined in that light, such an understanding does much to elucidate the inherent respect reserved for the Gorean Free Woman. Gorean Free Women must strive to retain their freedom through consistant action, in support of their fellow Free Goreans. Though some claim that status simply as the automatic default state into which they were born, the truth is far greater.”

[ This consistent contribution must therefore have some intrinsic value from the Men for that freewoman to remain as she is- “free”. Thus, supporting the concepts of having dichotomy and that value among slaves and freewomen and that of Men who places that value. ]

“The same holds true for Gorean Free Men. The Gorean Free Man earns that status for himself, nor does he consider it a mere accident of his birth in a free society.”

[ When the swords of others, your skill or the lack thereof will limit you it is you who will fail or succeed and society and/or community will just have to deal with your existence. ]

Whether or not modern Western culture qualifies as a "Free Society" in the Gorean sense is a topic for another time. It certainly grants more personal freedom than most such societies that presently exist, or have historically existed. How it may have demeaned and lowered the very concept of "freedom" in order to achieve that end, however, is open to interpretation. In any society where personal freedom is taken as a given, that status must by default lose much of its value to those who have no fear of losing it. Throughout the years, my primary reservation regarding the legal practice of economic chattel slavery-- like that practiced upon Gor-- has been that, in order for such a practice to be theoretically "right," it must have an extremely high percentage of correctness. And eventually, since that practice is economic above all else, it eventually concerns itself more with profit than with accuracy. In such a case, it becomes a less reliable means of judging the internal status of the enslaved individual in practice. It might be wrong. Nor would many who practice it care overmuch about such a potential error. Of course one might dismiss any such qualms by simply shrugging and saying "Too bad. Bad luck for you." But that reduces the potential truth value of the overall practice.”

[ The likely assumption within any society is that slavery starts first and the economic implications catch up. Over time the economics of a culture become slightly based upon that slavery which requires, whether the original reasons for slavery exist or not, that the system progresses. Once your economy is based upon labor that can be bought or sold it is very difficult to reverse that path . You look at Roman Empire for one example of this. Another, look to the implications or requirements in today’s society to say participate in the various Stimulus packages that Congress is currently and is expected to pass. Further, prior the power now that the Federal Reserve has over the monetary system in this country which inherently controls or masters others. As the morality of slavery such as "they" deserve to be slaves vs. "you" seem to be the reasoning in the books for slavery the economy had to have shifted to support and adopted that accretion. Thus, the economics are an effect and separated from the original causal assumptions. ]

“Rules and situations can change, and one might find oneself on the wrong side of the freedom/slavery line through no fault of one's own. But that status should not be arbitrary. Or rather, if it is that arbitrary, then it has less basis in intellectual honesty, and the rules which govern it aren't really "rules" at all. Unless, of course, intellectual honesty is not considered a valid component of the exercise.”

[ Of course intellectual honesty applies. I would certainly like to see more basis and less conclusions with references. Yet that is the legal-beagle in me. ]

“True, I may be overthinking it. But Goreans seem to spend a lot of time in those books rescuing the "unjustly" enslaved. That has to count for something.”

[ Let them be slaves. ]

I therefore feel that the concept of natural slavery and the practice of economic slavery, as depicted in the books, often intersect, but I suspect they are not always precisely the same thing.

[ Economic slavery is based on the need to continue a system. Look at the South in the US during the time we had slaves. We needed those slaves to work on some or most of the plantations. Some plantations had over 10,000 slaves-like The Houmas House did. Paying that many laborers would have been impossible. That’s why the plantations failed once they lost their slaves. It wasn’t feasible anymore. The North survived because they used sweat shops. They didn’t support their workers they just payed them a small wage where as the South would have had to do both. Slavery as a morality was different. It said that some people NEEDED to be slaves and thus they had to be. Then the economy had to find a way to absorb that. But once that happens it’s almost irreversible because your businesses and life get use to not *having* to pay a wage. (e.g. the Romans) or even some other current countries. So the economy is a direct result of current morality practices. This cause and effect. If you look at our economy. Our social programs support a larger and larger population who cannot or will not work (welfare families) as a matter of fact various Stimulus packages that are going through can be viewed as the same thing. Why profit or attempt to profit when the government is going to support you-it like the welfare system takes away the need to move forward and figure it out on your own. We COULD use that money to force them to work and train them in different occupations that are needed and then absorb them into the economy as being prosperous and taxpayers verse recipients of tax money. However, we can’t because the money is ALREADY going to the social programs and eliminating that need. To stop paying the social programs would cause chaos. There’s no more money because the money we need is already paying into the system. You will notice in the books there wasn’t a morality for male slavery yet there never was. The men were expected to try to escape. The male slave fed the economic system but were never morally slaves only women were.

This again defines the dichotomy and the varies intrinsic value which are superior and inferior. In essence your conclusion is correct but for the incorrect reasons.

“On the other hand...If one views all human society-- Earth or Gorean-- as a genetic process, and essentially an expression of total "social capitalism," then Gorean morality makes perfect sense, slavery and all. Each individual is a meme unto himself. The forces that move those memes are essentially random-- or at least, they are genetically unimportant. They are simply survival pressures of whatever kind. If you survive and excel, you win. If you don't, you disappear. How or why you do either is unimportant. It is only the end result that matters. Fairness" doesn't enter into it, nor do matters of propriety. Only survival matters, right or wrong, for good or ill. Compete successfully or exit the playing field. No whining allowed.”

[ What you are describing here is an underlying necessity . Necessity, who is the mother of invention.” –Plato. I will add to this a need is also the mother of invention, innovation, and survival. If you take away these necessaries or needs then there is drive to innovate, to invent and survival becomes less likely. In less dramatic terms competition along with supply and demand with the ability to survive (and the swords of others will be the only thing to limit you). ]

It is only considerations of individual identity that cloud the picture, and the resulting attempt to put things in some other proper order apart from that dictated by the end result. In such a social model, slavery, of whatever type, is just a thing that might happen. If it happens to you, you deal with it and get the hell out of it, or you don't. If you don't, you just don't. That blows any concept of "cosmic justice" or whatever out of the water. Because causes don't matter-- only results. Yup. That's a pretty damn Gorean attitude, all right.

[ There is always a cause that makes an effect or end result-always. These causes may or may not be the causes that we think they are but there is always a cause and an end result or effect. The end result may be just or it may not be just. If something is just or not is of one’s personal perspective. I prefer to look at conduct verse words for that is more definable, more definitive, and less subjective. All in all slavery just may well indeed happen in practice no matter where you are-actually it does in the end result. This again is in direct support of the dichotomy and the varies intrinsic values we place upon Free and slave. Men and Freewomen. Freewomen and slaves. This dichotomy and intrinsic value is mentioned above. ]

“When I look at it that way, in a wide overview of evolutionary factors, it makes total sense.”

[ First, this is quite overly broad and ambiguous and really is left to the reader to define and fill in their own information thusly making the statement “true”.

I will add a few references here:

~~~There is not, nor has there ever been, any society that even remotely failed to associate authority and leadership in suprafamilial areas with the male. There are no borderline cases….if socialization alone explains why societies are patriarchal, there should be any number of societies in which leadership and authority are associated with women, and one should not have to invoke examples of non-patriarchal societies that exist only in myth and literature.”
-- Professor Steven Goldberg, Chairman of the Department of Sociology at City College of New York, The Inevitability of Patriarchy, Open Court, Peru, Illinois, 1993, p. 15. p. 23

~~~At the University of Wisconsin, researchers injected testosterone into unborn female monkeys. Monkeys engage in very sex-stereotyped behavior, according to Stossel; the males are aggressive and fight, while the female monkeys typically groom and nurture the young. When the testosterone- injected females were born, they didn't groom or nurture their children. They fought and behaved like males….Child psychologist Michael Lewis conducted an experiment with one-year-old boys and girls to see how they would react to being separated from their mother by a barrier. The boys tried to knock the barrier down while the girls stood passively, crying for help.”
-- John Stossel, "Boys & Girls Are Different: Men, Women, and the Sex Difference," ABC News Special, January 17, 1998, tran script from the Internet, The Electric Library. ]

~~~Not only are men and women fundamentally different in the way their brains are wired, they are also vastly different in physical strength and endurance. The differences are rooted within both the genes and the hormones of males and females. Feminist leaders naively believe that physical differences between males and females should not be taken into consideration when hiring women to become policemen, firemen, or combat soldiers. Yet as Levin points out, females simply do not have the strength or endurance necessary to be effective combat soldiers. Yet in order to accommodate women who desire to be combat soldiers, the military has designed less stressful physical exercises and standards which would allow them to participate in roles for which they have sought inclusion. Contrary to the wishful thinking of feminists, bisexuals, and transsexuals, there are profound differences between males and females--and those differences are programmed within the DNA from the moment of conception. The brains of females and males are clearly "sexed," and testosterone and estrogen are the juices that augment maleness and femaleness.
http://www.narth.com/docs/york.html

This again shows the dichotomy and the various intrinsic value within superior and inferior groups.

“It is only when I zoom in to examine particular individual cases that it might appear somehow "unfair" or "incorrect." The Gorean viewpoint seems to be a combination of two distinct ways of looking at things-- one of which takes a general overview and says "nature will have the final say, so don't worry about it," and the other of which zooms in and says "it is good that we should attempt to help nature achieve what is best." Both of which seem to be constantly in effect, though they express themselves differently depending upon the current situation.”

[ Each of us has a differing idea of what is fair and what is not fair; this is a moral judgment (which differs). To be correct or not correct has lesser subjectivity than to judge fairness one way or the other. Nature will always have a hand in the cooking. It is how you deal with that is the most relevant question.

“That viewpoint must naturally make allowances for voluntary slavery, involuntary chattel slavery, social class structure, dodgeball, or any other winnowing mechanism that supports competition and therefore contributes to improving the overall survival fitness of the human race.”

[ Unfortunately you cannot have slavery that is voluntary. The two terms are not compatible by pure definitions. Slavery is the submission or surrender to a dominating influence along with the state of a person who is a chattel of another. (5) Voluntary is to proceed upon one’s own consent or choice. (the short definition) (6). The influence portion of the definition of slavery is negated. Also, if the person does have that choice per se they can easily claim equality. This would contradict both the natural state of male and female that is mentioned above along with inferior and superior groups of dichotomy and would also lessen the intrinsic value within those groups as displayed above as well. Thus, you cannot have voluntary slavery yet you do in our society have involuntary slavery that is subject to the various dominating forces that supports the dichotomy and the various intrinsic value that is then created. Further, you do not choose per see to be dominated you are certainly influenced to be. Which is the power or capacity of causing an effect in indirect or intangible ways-influence. (7) THE SIMPLE DIFFERENCE? The dominating force causes the submission or surrender rather than someone else “agreeing” to it with a conscience choice. There is no voluntary action evolved. ]

“In that larger sense, the reasons why some people wind up in chains are essentially unimportant. The only real matter of importance is who winds up in chains, and who doesn't. If it's the genetically stronger elements who wind up in chains, that's theoretically a worse result than if it is the genetically weaker elements who wear them.”

[ See the studies above that contradict this notation. The above notations are also contradictory to the forces of domination as they are clearly defined. Also but not limited to, on that line, “But is there any one thus intended by nature to be a slave, and for whom such a condition is expedient and right, or rather is not all slavery a violation of nature? There is no difficulty in answering this question, on grounds both of reason and of fact. For that some should rule and others be ruled is a thing not only necessary, but expedient; from the hour of their birth, some are marked out for subjection, others for rule…… But among barbarians no distinction is made between women and slaves, because there is no natural ruler among them: they are a community of slaves, male and female….”
http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl302/distance_arc/las_casas/Aristotle-slavery.html ]

“But then, if the genetically stronger elements choose to wear such chains rather than to embrace their personal freedom, then good riddance. Hopefully that tendency will vanish along with their genetic material. “

[ . . . . .This relates to my comment, “I personally tend not to enter into situations as to where such a person can invade my sovereignty but use that sword to my own skillful advantage. “

“By not resisting, they reveal themselves not to be so strong after all.”

I agree.

“ Individual valuation enters into what choices are made. But any choice not to survive and compete is the wrong choice-- the choice to vanish from the equation entirely. Which says something about the fitness of those who choose such.”

[ To compete and to win you have to exert some superior “force” or “influence” upon your competition. The outcome then will determine if that force or should I say influence won the day or should I say dominated your competition. Surely, that competition did not consent . . . . This again derails the notations of voluntary slavery and supports the dichotomy and the various intrinsic value thusly created. ]

“ Such choices will be made, surely-- but greater Gorean morality considers them to be a natural manifestation of survival capitalism. If one chooses to die, then, one deserves to do so. If one chooses to allow someone else to decide their fate for them, then one deserves the consequences, be they good or bad. I find I have no problem completely accepting that state of affairs, while still attempting to exercise my own choices and to force what outcome I feel is best. Since that attempt, too, is part and parcel to the process. Because as a Gorean, that makes complete sense all around. It might equally be simplified into the phrase "Let those who can, do. Those who can't, won't. It all works out in the end."

The instinct to survive is one of the most difficult instincts to circumvent. Surely, the involuntary slave can kill herself but they usually do not do so but they wait for differing circumstances in the future. Interesting enough you state, “. . . while still attempting to exercise my own choices and to force what outcome I feel is best.” This denotes to the definition of slavery that I have stated which includes that influence to bring about an end to your liking e.g. submission not “voluntary slavery”. Again, this contradicts the notations of voluntary slavery and supports as I have stated the above the dichotomy and the various intrinsic value thusly created.

Rapture.

FOOTNOTES:
(1) See: "dichotomy." Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary. 2009. Merriam-Webster Online. 8 February 2009 < http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dichotomy >

(2) See: "value." Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary. 2009. Merriam-Webster Online. 8 February 2009 < http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/value >

(3) "Make my maidens slaves," she said, "they are good for little else. But I am a free woman!" "Do you think you are better than they?" asked Samos. "Yes," she said. "You are no different from them," he said. "You, too are only a female." Players of Gor pg. 13 ;
“Perhaps you are a free woman, he said. It is hard to imagine a slave being so stupid.” Kajira of Gor Book 19 Page 224

(4) "'I shall inquire into truth as I please,' said another. 'I am a free man.'" Kajira of Gor - Pg. 387
"...for the average Gorean male, it must be admitted, tends to regard the joys of life somewhat more
highly than its duties." Outlaw of Gor, page 65
"Be strong and do as you will. The swords of others will set you your limits"
Marauders of Gor, page 10
"Within the circle of each man's sword," say the codes of the warrior, "therein is each man a Ubar"
"Steel is the coinage of the warrior," say the codes, "With it he purchases what pleases him"
Marauders of Gor, page 10

(5) "slavery." Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary. 2009. Merriam-Webster Online. 8 February 2009
< http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slavery >

(6) "voluntary." Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary. 2009. Merriam-Webster Online. 8 February 2009
< http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/voluntary >

(7) "influence." Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary. 2009. Merriam-Webster Online. 8 February 2009
< http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/influence >

Just words or Deep Substance?

2009-02-07T15:00:00.000-08:00

“A corrupt but charismatic individual or movement of individuals can convince their fellow humans of all kinds of wacky shit through linguistic contrivance.”
http://www.collarchat.com/m_2415056/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#2416345

I will in general agree with the above. There are many times in our history in which a person (especially politcians) are very charismatic and are liars along with being utterly corrupt or just dishonest. You take our current President, Obama, he is very charismatic but he has in fact contradicted himself both as President and while on the compaign trail. Obama has reversed many positions once elected and found out the truth of what was actually going on. Obama has dissed on workers while attending a private function here in San Francisco..etc etc etc.

Bill Clinton..an effective communicator but what was the substance of what he was saying?

Both these Presidents have won not based on fact but on their various abilities to communicate.

You find the same things on collarme.com (collarchat.com) in the gorean section among others. Those who write good and usually a lot tend not to say to much in substance.

You take MarcusofAr from Silk and Steel at:
http://www.collarchat.com/m_2339218/tm.htm

Marcus and nyx went at regarding marriage and free companionship but to only find out Marcus never really looked up the law nor does he know what it is. However, Marcus wants to make a comparision without knowing the in's and out's but of course we take what he says as "fact" or should we? Marcus mentions Martial this and that how many times? This is just being dishonest when you don't know both sides of the fence and want to play it off as you do. Marcus surely posts a few quotations about the symantics of each but stays clear of the specifics.

"This is a divergance from Gorean custom, and if that makes for a good relationship, go for it. It is not Gorean though. Just as marriage of any kind is not Gorean. Now the question would be does it go against Gorean philosophy/morality?" -OrionTheWolf

http://www.collarchat.com/m_2429272/mpage_2/tm.htm

....Just as marriage of ANY kind is NOT Gorean....

More on this fw/fc vs Family Law later.... (Thanks for agreeing with me Orion... I have said this way before the nyx and Marcus and your confession.) Maybe now grow some balls to actually not go along with the rest of the sheep on Collarme.)

"Our old friend Sophocles was making the point that if you command a bunch of stuff that you cannot enforce, your credibility and authority are eroded. This is doubly true when handling slave girls, in my experience. "

With that....

"“It might, if you choose your master well. Edana was earning 35K when I collared her, she is earning 95K for me four years later. Men who truly see their sluts as assets to manage in all respects are not all that common though. If you find yourself one who does, yes, your professional potential will probably rise.”

With that....

"I recently sent my slave to Texas for a year, and she came back 40 pounds heavier. I wasn't surprised. Slave girls are not generally long on self-discipline. " - Leonidas.

The truth is that edana had to go and deal with her kids. You didn't do much else Leonidas (and by your own contentions and words). Leo edana can kick your ass out of HER house at any time. I guess your word are not all to much when she was there in Texas nor are you really in control.

Just words...little substance.

Drugs?

Saved inbox message from Leonidas dated 1/14/2009 9:02:57 PMWednesday, January 14, 2009 9:03 PMFrom Collarme.com Wed Jan 14 21:03:22 2009Return-Path: <noreply@collarme.com>
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Uhhh... who the fuck are you? Drugs are bad, m'kay? I can tell by the length of what you wrote that you must be wound up about something, but I really can't tell what. Go babble at someone who gives a fuck, loser.

The above is a typical response from someone (Leonidas) is really is NOT in control. HOW CAN LEONIDAS say with any honesty that about drug use when he also says HE DOES NOT KNOW ME-HE HONESTLY CANNOT.

JUST LIKE MARCUS _cannot_ HONESTLY say much about Gor and Family law without knowing both. (Note: Marcus is married along with xBullx and many others who just deny the fact that they are not living as they profess to be).

Just words WITHOUT substance......

References:
http://www.collarchat.com/m_2444319/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#2444794
http://www.collarchat.com/m_2414460/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#2414639
http://www.collarchat.com/m_2415056/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#2416345

Blacksingles?

2009-01-21T19:01:00.001-08:00

Did I mention when someone (mainly the gorean gods) get cornered they start making slurs and personal attacks? Well here are they again doing so.....

I received an email from a dating site, "Blacksingles"....

Welcome to Black Singles - Start Making Connections Now!
Sunday, January 18, 2009 3:56 PM
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BLACK SINGLES?

Well I didn't really did not join such a site but it was amusing to receive...

Wait.. the profile!

Your profile has been approved. Begin connecting now.Sunday, January 18, 2009 6:06 PMFrom BlackSingles.com Profile Review Team Sun Jan 18 18:06:56 2009Return-Path: <bounce-2099610475@blacksingles.com> Authentication-Results: mta420.mail.re4.yahoo.com from=BlackSingles.com; domainkeys=pass (ok) Received: from 208.53.50.100 (EHLO mailer.minglematch.com) (208.53.50.100) by mta420.mail.re4.yahoo.com with SMTP; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 18:06:57 -0800 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=20050721; d=blacksingles.com; h=Received:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date; b=uQoDl6Z70NWDq1oaElFErCc5fcfrvl9kAjSaMBcd2g1YkSr4Ti69zhAq8IksuM95jaCFGNUKemGyb7HaveI3vCZvdRS6WLIo2MyDM+YyoLXAGwc1TawHTYGjEALhFqpj; Received: from nobody by mail.minglematch.com with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <bounce-2099610475@BlackSingles.com>) id 1LOjXU-0002XW-1n for rapture203@yahoo.com; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 02:06:56 +0000 From: "BlackSingles.com Profile Review Team" <profilereview@BlackSingles.com> Add sender to Contacts Reply-To: "BlackSingles.com Profile Review Team" <profilereview-2099610475@BlackSingles.com> To: "rapture gortard" <rapture203@yahoo.com> Subject: Your profile has been approved. Begin connecting now. Message-Id: <E1LOjXU-0002XW-1n@mail.minglematch.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 02:06:56 +0000 Content-Length: 287
Compact HeadersHello rapture,
Thank you for submitting a profile on our site. It has been approved and is now being displayed on BlackSingles.com. We invite you to check it out and see what the members of our site are seeing when they view your profile.
Have fun mingling!The Profile Review Team

IT WAS APPROVED!!!! woOoww....

What did the profile say? Just look above...

Yup...

ONE PROBLEM:

Thanks for leaving your JOIN IP address:

RE: Report AbuseTuesday, January 20, 2009 1:37 PMFrom BlackSingles.com Support Tue Jan 20 13:37:27 2009Return-Path: <bounce-2099610475@blacksingles.com> Authentication-Results: mta162.mail.ac4.yahoo.com from=BlackSingles.com; domainkeys=pass (ok) Received: from 208.53.50.100 (EHLO mailer.minglematch.com) (208.53.50.100) by mta162.mail.ac4.yahoo.com with SMTP; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:37:28 -0800 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=20050721; d=blacksingles.com; h=Received:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date; b=ED+jbTfbbBTB1thma+3ZR/uHLMeRC7K7vfZfmYpioF/AKI3QLxdp41w5aFiyC/nXCsizaYF1asv73r6BEgvYOX/vDWxA1eAV/cij3HXxjDx4ezyRVdh5Cze0aT0WqFHh; Received: from nobody by mail.minglematch.com with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <bounce-2099610475@BlackSingles.com>) id 1LPOHn-0007AM-AZ for rapture203@yahoo.com; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:37:27 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: "BlackSingles.com Support" <tasha@BlackSingles.com> Add sender to Contacts Reply-To: "BlackSingles.com Support" <reportabuse-2099610475@BlackSingles.com> To: "rapture203@yahoo.com" <rapture203@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: Report Abuse Message-Id: <E1LPOHn-0007AM-AZ@mail.minglematch.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:37:27 +0000 Content-Length: 154
Compact HeadersHi Rapture,

Join IP 67.177.90.29

DUH.

The above IP address is:

c-67-177-90-29.hsd1.al.comcast.net.

Soo... To bad I was not in that state! Nor do I have comcast!

Needless to say "someone" thinks screwing black chics is a bad thing and such would be insulting to me. Well? Whomever did this or was put up to this is a racist.

It surely is laughable when the all mighty goreans pull this type of crap... it's surely juvenile at best. Then again it is on the lines of the same stuff I have received from Ravenofpk, xBullx, Leonidas, OrionTheWolf, and even from the Moderators (especially ModeratorEleven) from http://www.collarme.com/ and http://www.collarchat.com/.

Ever wonder why these people never really get called on their name calling? :)

Anyhow... I'm once again amused.

Rapture

Opening Statement

2009-01-19T11:04:00.000-08:00

I have decided to open this account because the so called "Goreans" seem to fear the fact others have a brain and can easily contradict their spew. Needless to say on various forums these people think they can censor people and by doing so prevent their respective spew from being contradicted or known. These people will ban and use personal attacks then turn around and accuse others of the very thing they do.

Welcome to a place to which they will not comment but surely will be informed of or even view. Further, they cannot merely delete contradictory statements that are backed unlike their unsubstantiated opinion. I dare them to attempt their chest thumping in a venue in which they have no control... These people who do ban or "debate" only do so in venues in which they have some measure of control or control measures in place to "back them up"-this is a fact

- Untidy truth is better than smooth lies.
- ...Integrity, honesty, and performance and competence have to weigh in this business-loyalty.
- All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed;
and Third, it is accepted as self-evident.
-- Arthur Schopenh

Rapture